Juventus have officially presented a request for the revocation of the league title that was awarded off the pitch to Inter-cettati. The 29th league title won by Juventus on the pitch had been assigned to Inter-cettati after Juventus were found guilty of violating the principles of loyalty and propriety and correctness for having nurtured links with the refereeing class.
Following the emergence of evidence previously kept in the dark it transpires that Inter-cettati (non abbiamo mai chiesto lo scudetto) were just as thickly involved in the refereeing mess. While many could argue that Moggi’s Juventus were champions in the parallel league of dark practices off the pitch there is no denying that Inter were also losing participants in that category too. Such participation should automatically disqualify them from claiming the scudetto di carta of 2006.
There’s more. The victories of Mourinho’s Corazzata di Intercettati celebrated over the past four years will remain tainted forever by the way Inter-cettati first acted with disdain as though it was a victim and then proceeded to enjoy the fruits of having handicapped the only team that had kept its murky hands off the silverware for so long. The hypocrtical vultures had already fed off Juventus’ sinking ship in 2006 – Ibrahimovic and Viera – and then continued to build a (relatively) strong team while Juventus had to cope with the setback of being the capro espiatorio of the sick system that is Italian football.
2010. Inter-cettati win the scudetto (Siena permitting) and still cannot garner any respect from their adversaries. Like the sick King they can only be happy with the yes-men milanese press and their delusional ideas of grandeur defeating real football by reviving the catenaccio. Yes, we do remember that it takes the pretenders to the throne of football’s greats an hour of ugly catenaccio football to get to the final.
Throughout the eighties and nineties Inter-cettati had the sweet tag of “simpatici perdenti” almost loved by all except their Milanese cousins. Now under Moratti and Facchetti (God rest his soul) they have become an imposing symbol of all that is sick in Italian football.
“Nell’esposto presentato oggi si fa esplicito riferimento alle novità emerse nel procedimento penale in corso presso il Tribunale di Napoli, che rivelano l’esistenza di una fitta rete di contatti tra esponenti della società beneficiata dell’assegnazione a tavolino dello scudetto 2005-2006 e tesserati del settore arbitrale. Tali contatti rappresentano, secondo i criteri adottati dalla Procura Federale nel giudizio a carico della Juventus, la violazione dei principi di lealtà, probità e correttezza sanciti dall’articolo 1 del Codice di Giustizia Sportiva. È convinzione della Juventus, pertanto, che venga meno il presupposto della decisione assunta dal Commissario Straordinario della Federcalcio nel 2006: l’inesistenza, cioè, di “comportamenti poco limpidi” addebitabili alla squadra che risultò prima classificata dopo la penalizzazione delle altre” – Juventus FC
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34 replies on “Inter-cettati (contd)”
And Giuve want that titulu back although they had ‘nurtured links with the refereeing class’?
Tva things:
a) sounds a bit like PLPN transposed into bianconerazzur
a) nice choice of euphemism, j’uventus!
DF. Only a Romanista could come up with that conclusion.
Read the ricorso. They are saying simply that if Juve’s scudetto was taken away on certain grounds and Inter also violated the same principles then the scudetto should NOT be assigned.
I’ve been saying this for ages. – EVERYONE is guilty. Juve is seen as guiltier than certain others because it managed to work the system better – and managed to profit from it. Inter (referees, bilanci,) Roma (rolex, referees, passports) and more also played the system but where equally losers OFF the pitch as they were on the pitch.
No I do not want that titulu… I want the whole system to change. What’s new?
And the sad thing is that teams like Roma feel somewhat legitimated by the change because they’ve discovered themselves as “anti-inter” – the puppet antagonist in the one-way farce engineered by Farsopoli.
As I said 4 years ago and will repeat now. The clean up has not happened yet. Italy still awaits its footballing version of mani pulite- (And that includes the wider ambit of better stadia, cleaner finances, proper tax incentives for footballers to compete with UK/Spain hegemony, ridding of the hooligan element, less talk and more football, cleaning up of the corrupt sports press and much much more.
If only it were so easy as Inter-Juve rivalry… we’d have crushed them hands down long ago.
1) La Giuve rivuole o no gli scudetti? Check all these out:
http://www.google.com/search?q=juve+rivuole+scudetto&rls=com.microsoft:*:IE-SearchBox&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&sourceid=ie7&rlz=1I7HPEB_en-GB
2) It’s ridiculous to state that everyone played the system but Giuve were just better at playing it. And that EVERYONE is guilty. Simply not true.
Qisek Lou Bondi DF… googling your research. Just look at the ricorso… it’s black on white (lovely colours don’t you think?). They are asking for a revoce not a riassegnazione.
As for “simply not true” kull ma jonqsok is to cover your ears and sing “lalalalalalaala” …. denial… it’s lovely.
pero xorta forza roma e mezzaroma for next sunday… you never know…
1) Slowly with the comparisons Mr Wikipedia! Linking to google simply to show that there’s a whole lot of literature on the subject, a lot of which from reliable sources.
2) Denial? Absoljutna Nyet, just an aversion to the ‘collective guilt’/’all in the same boat’ syndrome. It’s often an easy escape route for the real villains.
3) Yes, I’m praying for a 10-man catenaccio in the Siena box on Sunday.
Feel aversions as much as you like.. it’s not nice so I can understand but when it comes to sources surely you cannot deny the basic fact. Your assertion (or query) was whether Juve want the scudetto… what better source than the horse’s mouth: Juve accepted their guilt and paid their penalty. They are simply asking for a very very basic legal principle to apply: La Giustizia E Uguale Per Tutti.
As I had told Lou some time ago re his “right to insult” assertions – the internet is worse than the scriptures – you will find arguments in support of any assertion or conjecture if you dig hard enough. The ability to pinpoint the RELEVANT source – in this case what Juve is really requesting – discerns the capable journalist from the amateur.
1897 – giocavamo a calcio quando le vostre nonne non erano ancora nate!
@DF – Have you kept abreast of recent developments at the Napoli tribunal? The recently-revealed phone calls between Facchetti (Inter’s then-president) and Paolo Bergamo are enough to make even the staunchest anti-Juve protester blush.
Popular mythology states that Juve were found guilty of match fixing. This isn’t true – Juve were found guilty of various individual infringements, which the ad hoc tribunal decided all came together to create a ‘conspiracy of crime’ (associazione a delinquere). I suppose you could liken it to a RICO charge, only without the necessary legislation.
There was no need to assign the 2006 Scudetto to anyone – Guido Rossi’s decision to assign it to Inter, and the latter’s vacuous moralising about ‘Lo Scudetto degli Onesti’ is simply coming to bite them in the proverbial butt.
Word Up Grandmaster Flash!
1) I don’t get your logic Fanon. Why should the Facchetti-Bergamo calls “make even the staunchest anti-Juve supporter blush”? Why should they make a Viola, Toro or Roma supporter blush?
2)Did I ever state that Juve were “found guilty of match fixing”? Or quote popular mythology on that point? Nope.
3)If Inter are stripped of their 2006 scudetto following the latest developments, so be it. I’m not going to shed too many tears.
4) Jacques, if you want to speak about the quoted ricorso and not put it in context, go ahead. But I take capitan ‘Alex’ Del Piero’s words more seriously than I’d take your common Giuve fan’s wishes. They have moral standing, he doesn’t just speak for himself when he says “Io comunque mi auguro che gli scudetti tolti ci vengano riconosciuti e non solo perché li sentiamo nostri”. Ejja, you know how these things work in Italy…se li sente suoi Del Piero… Furthermore, are the ’28’ and ’29’ photos simply a slip of your journalistic hand or is it the tifoso giuventino fino al collo speaking?
Thanks for the reply.
Seeing as Fiorentina were part of the calciopoli scandal themselves, and Roma are hardly paragons of virtue (from Rolexes to Nakata to dodgy accounting practices), I don’t think they’ve got much to be proud of. My point, however, was that the massive sense of schadenfreude directed towards Juve and its fans is now beginning to seem premature.
And of course Juve’s players feel that those two championships are theirs. How would YOU feel if you were told that you had broken the rules and would be punished, only to find out later that EVERYONE ELSE was breaking those same rules, at the exact same time, but hadn’t been punished?
Dear Jacques,
You are a very well read man. But please do read the fine print. And please, do not judge if you do not know all the facts. Being a very hurt Juve supporter, your judgement is definitely being muddled up somewhat by your errant emotions. Maybe you should read from other sources. May I suggest the following website. Its quite objective, and tends to show sport differently from the usual cliches of gazzetta and Corriere:
http://nuovoindiscreto.blogspot.com/
Being the articulate and intelligent person that you are, I am sure that your intellectual curiosity will take you there
Thanks for the compliments Joe. Intellectual curiosity has taken many places – and I still reach the same conclusion. Juventus was guilty under article 1 of the Codice sportivo and therefore rightly stripped of its title. On the basis of the new evidence it is evdient that (a) Inter-cettati was just as guilty and should never have been awarded the 2006 scudetto; (b) Inter-cettati enjoyed the unfair advantage of not being punished for its guilt in the same manner as other teams were punished and is still doing so up to this day; (c) the Italian campionato is still sick and Inter-cettati are symbolic of all that is wrong with the system.
Logic states that we should wait for the official findings before jumping to conclusions. The media are making the mistake (probably on purpose) of confusing the evidence presented with the actual court decision on them. They are saying: “look! proof! so others are also guilty. Hang them all!” You know very well that it is not simply a question of presenting proof, it is the quality of thte proof that matters. How can we arrive to conclusions now when the court itself has not yet started to evaluate all relevant proof?
Your expertise should guide you to this conclusion. I would not like to think that your line of reasoning, your capacity to analyse objectively, and your sense of justice are not always applied in this case. Your approach is quite different when you talk of other matters (politics, journalsm, etc). I do not exclude anything in football, but I will certainly not be led into thinking what a certain media wants me to think. You know, I took the trouble of hearing all the phone recordings, and believe me, I have still to find something which can be legally used as a basis for a criminal prosecution.
Your writings are very impressive and a delight to read. But please do keep up your high standard also on this subject. It’s difficult, I know, but you have the capability to do it.
@Joseph
You say that you are yet to discover any phone recording worth using as a basis for criminal prosecution.
Presumably this following one is of no interest whatsoever?
Facchetti: “Guarda che ho guardato, ho guardato lo score di Bertini (ndr quando ha arbitrato l’Inter)…quattro vittorie, quattro pareggi, quattro sconfitte…”
Bergamo: “Porca miseria, facciamo cinque, quattro, quattro allora…eheheh”
Facchetti: “Eheheh…”
Bergamo: “Ma vittorie però…”
Facchetti: “Digli che è determinante domani”
Bergamo: “Si, no lo devi sentire ora, mi ha chiamato ma non potevo rispondere”
Facchetti: “E’ determinante, ha fatto dodici partite, quattro, quattro, quattro…”
Bergamo: “Una, dici te, una la smuove, ma deve smuovere quella che comincia per “V””
Facchetti: “Quella giusta, quella giusta, quella giusta”
Bergamo: “Sì, ma viene, vedrai, bene, perché è un ragazzo intelligente e ha capito ora come si cammina. C’è voluto un po’ per capire, ma insomma, meglio tardi che mai”
Hear the audio – http://www.calcioblog.it/post/12623/matrix-nuova-intercettazione-facchetti-bergamo-digli-che-e-determinante#continua
@Fanon. This seems compromising. Tell you what, let us now all allow the competent authorities decide the matter. I will accept whatever verdict comes out. A word of warning, though. The law reads and evaluates proof using different criteria than those used by the public. It also followes a more tortuous and slow process to carve out the truth. Any lawyer worth his salt will explain this, its his bread and butter.
The gist of my point is simple: we cannot conclusively condemn someone before the court does so. Once it does,then that’s another matter altogether.
Reading about it in the press/blogs is one thing, following the due course of law is different. Newspapers/media are savage beasts, and when they lose their sense of direction, as has happened these last years in Italy, they will just bulldoze through and manipulate public opinion in the desired direction. Do we want this to happen, or do we want justice and truth to prevail?
Interesting attempt at provocation Joseph. Almost as good as the first one. Now for the simple matter of rebutting your argumentation:
You speak of criminal law. Interesting but inconsequential. I speak of article 1 of the Codice Sportivo.
Juventus were stripped of their scudetto under that article – not a criminal case (if the contrary were the case they would still be awaiting a decision)- on the basis of violation of the principles of loyalty etc… The evidence necessary for that violation is there (see fanon’s citation for phone calls if you still need any).
The facts are there. The phone calls are there. No amount of squirming by the intercettati will prove otherwise.
The standard is high… the standard is black and white.
Not so sure my learned friend. Not so sure. No provocation either, just dialectic duelling.
I am always very wary of trial by media, whether it is sport or ordinary justice. Patience is a virtue which is hardly practiced these days. I would not be so hurried and decide so conclusively what is black and what is white (do excuse the pun) as you make it to be.
If, and only if, the relevant judicial authorities find fault with the culprits, whoever they may be, then we all will accept the verdict without any hesitation. But before then, judging people by media will only be redolent of whichhunts, which, we all surely agree, is not becoming of civilised thought.
Do forgive my considerations. Rather than wanting to discuss the merits of the case (I can only speak as a fan, and this does not really qualify me to speak publicly, we can do that privately), I was talking about you. Believe me, I am hoping to see the Jacques I usually read, the one who is an ardent supporter of justice and all that is correct (may I say, even more ardent than your love for the zebras). That is all I ask.
Frankly, whoever wins or loses (in all senses) is rather inconsequential. I still prefer our Thursday football matches at Gasperich.
lately i end up thinking of gomorra (the film) and il divo (the other film) when i think of italian football, and the impression they left me with, that this nation has corruption embedded in its genes… it was always obvious that everyone was involved in this scandal and that people (like zamparini) who were shouting ‘murder’ were in fact doing so because they were excluded from the big, yummy portions… if there had to be a mani-pulite kind of raid on the system i doubt if even parish tournaments would come out of it unblemished…
A small aside – isn’t it marvellous how posts about political, racial and social issues in Malta are left bereft of comments, while a serie A blog post unleashes hell?
It was either this or “trash and destroy” ;) Next provocative article – will Brasil still win the world cup without Pato, Dinho and Diego?
Yes, because they have Julio Cesar, Lucio and Maicon
bongu joe. l-btala t-tajba. And I guess Argentina will do badly because of not having Zanetti and Cambiasso right? Gemmajthom il-Calciatori? Ha noqghod inwahhal illum (imnalla l-Ascension).
U le! Provokazzjoni zghira dik. Qed inhoss il-bard ghax xi hadd halla l-bieb miftuh. L-Argentina ser imorru tajjeb ghax ghandhom lil Messi tal-Barcelona, barra minn Maradona, l-aqwa coach tad-dinja wara Lippi.
Veru ggemma tal-panini?
PS Added photo to diaporama. A pic of the intercettati curva claiming that the scudetto di carta “E nostro e ne siamo fieri”
Sublime.
Fanon’s observation that a footie blogpost unleashes ‘hell’ while the silence is defeaning on political, social, racial issues is pretty accurate. I’d just add that this is particularly the case with the nuanced, non-partisan, non-“trash and destroy”, non-institutionalised blogs and articles. I’m thinking j’accuse, M-A Falzon, Ranier Fsadni versus I.M. Beck, Fr. Joe Borg and the obvious suspects.
@Fanon
I have a problem with your EVERYONE ELSE (in big capitals to boot). As far as I know Giuve got hit very hard because IT WAS PROVED that they had played very filthy, Milan and Fiorentina got hit hard because IT WAS PROVED that they had played dirty. Fair enough, yeah? Not just Giuve-martiri were punished. Now there are new developments concerning Inter. Ok, let’s see what comes out of that.
But to jump from this to EVERYONE was doing it is just plain dishonest and misleading.
Alas DF is right Fanon. We owe an apology to Empoli, Cagliari and Bologna fans (I imagine). He is surely not referring to AS Roma of Baldini and Sensi.
Baldini who was involved up to his neck and even got the prosecutor Lt. Col. Auricchio to lie that the two had meetings before the story broke.
Roma the team that (a) gave Rolex watches to referees, (b) bought hookers and watches for referee and linesmen before their Champions’ Cup semi final against Dundee United in 1984, (c) were involved in the Italian passport scandal for players (Cafu and Bartelt), (d) got the FIGC to change their laws mid-season (when Roma won the scudetto) to remove restrictions on non-EU players fielded (three days before the crucial Roma-Juve match 2-2 ta’ Nakata), and (e) are involved in calciopoli 2 (Baldini has been indicted).
We do have to be careful with generalisations. Not Everyone – but definitely Inter, Roma, Milan, Fiorentina and of course Juventus.
You’re right, not everyone was involved. My ‘EVERYONE ELSE’ was directed towards all the teams in Juve’s stratum – Milan, Inter, Roma. As it happened, some other teams outside that circle (Fiorentina & Genoa spring to mind) were also playing dirty.
Nevertheless, my generalisation was unfair and misleading. Apologies.
And you’re right – partisan issues tend to stir people’s commenting loins a bit more than the more analytical blog posts. But this simply harks back to what Jacques has said on countless occasions – site hits and notoriety are easy to come by, provided you’re willing to chase them :)
PS. I was quoting from an email received from another D.O.C Juve fan.
@Giuventino DOC
If it makes you feel better to equate “Rolexes”, “passports” and (I loved this one!) “hookers and watches…before the Champions Cup semi-final against Dundee United in 1984” to the systematic manipulation of the system by Giuve during the Moggi years, enjoy the ride.
But in the meantime, until futher proof crops up and a court finds that other teams were involved in MoggiGiraudisms, please permit non-Giuventini to point out that your attempt at equivalence is pretty deluded.
PS: you shouldn’t have let Ranieri go guys. He had given Giuve a healthy dose of respectability which even worked on a Romanista like me.
@rigettanta: cala cosi il triste sipario. I say Italian football is sick and you want to compare leprosy with disintery. Ah yes but my sickness is better than yours… at least my body stays together and I can hide it in public. Ma va ma va…
It’s Karin Grech vs Raymond Caruana all over!
That was supposed to be “riggettante” not “riggettanta”. Anyways, on a different note, it seems that if the early calciomercato rumours are true (thankfully, they are normally wrong) Juventus are aiming for two players with a history of long injuries: Aquilani (Liverpool, ex Rigetta), Royston Drenthe (Real, ex Holland player). Both are young and have demonstrated great talent in the few minutes they play in a year but are we sure we want to bet on two injury-prone players – especially after the disastrous injury-hit season this year?
Maybe we’re giving up on the football and trying to – ahem – ‘crack’ the Swarovski market.